What's wrong with the 40 S&W??????

[Grouse]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

Because it's 20lbs of crap in a 1lb bag. It's like putting a V8 in a Volkswagen.
So it's becomes unmanageable in my opinion. If I can't have a .45 I'll take a 9 any day.
The 9 got a bad rep because of the military and their use of ball rounds. With today's technology on hollow points the differences are negligible.
I'd rather hit with a nine then miss with a .40.
Now mind you I took Top Gun at the academy with. .40 (P229). So I can shoot anything, but overall I dislike it and sold all my .40's except for the 229.
Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
Now mind

I think a lot of the issue stems with putting the 40 in a compact package. It is not a caliber to put in a sub 4" barreled gun. It should honestly be in a full size 4"-5" gun.

One of the big pushes when 40 was first making a name for its self with law enforcement was grip size and gun size for female and male police officers that had smaller hands. The industry responded with smaller guns. Being a higher pressure cartridge than 9 and 45 it gave more felt recoil in the hand. Which lead to a fair number of bad shooters. Yeah you can add in the departments training and Qual standards. To the discussion, the cost of ammo etc. The fact comes down to it, High pressure rounds in small guns suck to shoot. They take time, training and dedication. Things that police departments often have to put in other areas.

Shoot a 40 out of a 1911 gov, or even out a sig 226, HK USP, or CZ 75 and i find it to be an enjoyable caliber to shoot. When you get down to the 1911 officers, emp, khar, mini s, 239, etc then it is not so enjoyable and for new shooters it can be down right challenging. Bad shooters can develop habits that become unbelievably hard to get rid of.


Just like i do not recommend a 1911 for a first hand gun purchase, I don't often recommend a 40. Hell I almost always recommend a 22lr, either a MKIII, BM Camper or smith 617. Better training, cheaper ammo, less felt recoil, and certainly more fun to learn on.

I am not going to blame the cartridge, but the actions taken by individual shooters leading up to owning a gun of any caliber. The fact is the 40 is just as accurate, just as effective, and just as capable as either a .38, 9mm, 45acp, 357 round. It comes down to training, effort and time spent with ones firearm. When people swap guns every 3 weeks, because they did not shoot the last one well, then i loose all sympathy. to use each gun specifically, or don't bother carrying it.

[BlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Grouse

I think a lot of the issue stems with putting the 40 in a compact package. It is not a caliber to put in a sub 4" barreled gun. It should honestly be in a full size 4"-5" gun.

One of the big pushes when 40 was first making a name for its self with law enforcement was grip size and gun size for female and male police officers that had smaller hands. The industry responded with smaller guns. Being a higher pressure cartridge than 9 and 45 it gave more felt recoil in the hand. Which lead to a fair number of bad shooters. Yeah you can add in the departments training and Qual standards. To the discussion, the cost of ammo etc. The fact comes down to it, High pressure rounds in small guns suck to shoot. They take time, training and dedication. Things that police departments often have to put in other areas.

Shoot a 40 out of a 1911 gov, or even out a sig 226, HK USP, or CZ 75 and i find it to be an enjoyable caliber to shoot. When you get down to the 1911 officers, emp, khar, mini s, 239, etc then it is not so enjoyable and for new shooters it can be down right challenging. Bad shooters can develop habits that become unbelievably hard to get rid of.


Just like i do not recommend a 1911 for a first hand gun purchase, I don't often recommend a 40. Hell I almost always recommend a 22lr, either a MKIII, BM Camper or smith 617. Better training, cheaper ammo, less felt recoil, and certainly more fun to learn on.

I am not going to blame the cartridge, but the actions taken by individual shooters leading up to owning a gun of any caliber. The fact is the 40 is just as accurate, just as effective, and just as capable as either a .38, 9mm, 45acp, 357 round. It comes down to training, effort and time spent with ones firearm. When people swap guns every 3 weeks, because they did not shoot the last one well, then i loose all sympathy. to use each gun specifically, or don't bother carrying it.

Better stated than I. Thanks.

[milkmanjoe]

To me there is no need for it. It can be hard to find even in good times, in volume. It ain't cheap. It is "snappy" as hell, as already stated. And in all honesty, a 9mm Winchester Ranger T will perform very close to even a .45. Modern ballistics have come a long way. I stick with 9mm or .45, even though I want a 10mm 1911. Wanting one doesn't have to be sensible. We all get that. It's an "odd" caliber with no real calling that what already exists doesn't do.

[Dave Waits]

Well, I think it doesn't get much respect partly because it's pretty much an orphan round. Other than police work everything is pretty covered by the 9mm, 45ACP and the 10mm.

Another problem is it's reputation in a lot of circles. It started out with a 155 at 950fps Which was respectable. Glock chambered their guns for it based on that round. Then they, police and the ammo manufacturers, tried to make it something it wasn't, a 45ACP. Before long that 155 was doing 1250 or so. This caused problems in the Glock chambers, Chrystalization and longitudinal stres-cracks which led to Ka-Booms. The chambers couldn't take the pressure. Plus the casehead is unsupported 360 degrees for about 1/8th inch. Too much pressure.

All in all, an answer to a question that wasn't asked.

[Grouse]

I would say 10mm has a much smaller following. It think it would be fair to say 9mm, 45, and .38/.357 fill load out of defensive handgun calibers. rounds like 44mag, 22lr, finish out the defensive/practice rounds.

What is left is the more niche rounds like .380 .40/10mm, 41 mag, 327 mag, 50 AE, 454 casull, 45LC, .460 and 500 are superfluous and really not in the mainstream. Yes they produce guns, and ammo to small degrees. Never will you see it on the scale of even .38/357.

During the ammo crisis after the school shooting. I scored 40sw for 12 bucks per 50 and 10mm for 17.95 per 50. All when 9mm was going for 30 per fifty and 45acp for 35 per 50 all for 115grn rn, and 230grn lrn. another one was 9x18 mak, i picked up 1000 rounds for 179 shipped

In that alone i see some validity to have an odd ball caliber or three. It allows me to shoot, and practice when price spikes would lower my range visits.

I would like to see a break down of ammo manufacture by caliber across the US, the cross reference that with production numbers of guns by caliber. It would be an interesting way to see the metrics on what is and is not mainstream in the US.

[Sheepdog]

Hi I'm and I am a 10mm aholic! I am also an odd ball. My personal opinion is that the 40 S&W with hot rounds is a very useable SD round. I don't carry one, I do shoot them for competition along with 38 Supers. IMHO it is a much better performer than the 9mm. I find the 9mm to "snappy" for what you get. That said i like bigger guns and most of the 9's I shoot or have shot are smaller. Thanks for the feedback. It just seemed that whenever the 40 S&W comes up lot's of people really bash them and I thought maybe I was missing something.

I think Grouse was right on track. Whatever you are going to carry is what you should train with I don't get, the different gun every week thing.

[aloreman]

Personally the 40 is my favorite round. I carry a shield in a 40 and a g23 in a 40. I also compete with an m&p in a 40. The m&p does have less felt recoil than the g23 and is actually pleasant to fire. Waiting to pick up my trojan in a 40 and cant wait to get my hands on a new ria in 40. Having recently started to dabble with 38 super and 10mm id have to say the 40 isnt that hard to manage

[sdmc530]

Originally Posted by Sheepdog

Hi I'm and I am a 10mm aholic! I am also an odd ball.

Hi , welcome to the group......I have been a member for about a year now.